Preoccupying: Mark Serwotka

Mark Serwotka is General Secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS), the trade union for British civil servants.

Occupied Times: Union membership is shrinking. What is the role of trade unions today?

Mark Serwotka: While union membership overall has been falling, in some areas where we organise, despite job cuts, the percentage of people in the union has been going up. That’s the crucial thing we have to look to. Naturally, unions are strength in numbers. We believe that unions have a vital role to play, not just in protecting workers’ jobs, pay and conditions, but also offering a counter to the greed culture of the City and the corruption that has infected too much of the political classes and their friends in the media.

OT: How effective are one-day strikes, like the ones on November 30th? What can they achieve?

MS: One-day strikes can be very effective but they’re never a solution on their own. For example, we held a one-day strike on 30th June alongside colleagues from three other unions. That forced the issue of pensions – public and private – into the mainstream media and ministers were found wanting in their arguments. We’ve kept up the pressure since then and we now face the prospect of up to 30 unions with nearly three million public servants walking out on November 30th. That is an incredibly powerful thing in itself, for those people to show for a day that they do not accept the lies they are being told by this government.

OT: Will PCS move from symbolic one-day strikes to actions aimed directly at the ConDems?

MS: Our campaign for an alternative to cuts, which this strike forms a part of, is in a sense aimed directly at the government because its government policies that mean public servants are losing their jobs, their pay is being frozen and their pensions are being raided. The strike and the campaign is not political in the sense that it’s designed to bring down the government, but we do recognise that all the cuts flow from the same source and we are determined to fight that.

OT: The unemployed could be forced to work in government agencies under Mandatory Work Activity. How do PCS members feel about that?

MS: Our union is absolutely opposed to workfare and the further privatisation of our welfare state. Instead of forcing people to work for no money, and stigmatising them as ‘scroungers’ and ‘cheats’, the government should be creating proper jobs and opportunities that provide long term sustainable employment.

OT: Can you give us details of negotiations with Francis Maude? Is the government willing to negotiate with unions?

MS: After provoking a dispute by cutting jobs, freezing pay and threatening to raid pensions, ministers have shown very little interest in seriously negotiating. In six months of talks on pensions they haven’t moved in any significant way on the core issues that we’re opposed to: forcing people to pay more and work longer for less in retirement.

OT: Why do you think that unions have not been able to steer public discourse about inequality and austerity cuts in the past years?

MS: I think we have had some success in doing this, to be fair. We haven’t won the argument by any means, but the public is deeply sceptical about the need for cuts and trust in politicians is rock-bottom. The Unite union commissioned a survey recently that revealed, on pensions, unions were more than three times more trusted to provide accurate information than the government. We will continue to do what we can to put forward our economic arguments – and we’ve published pamphlets in the last year on our alternative to cuts, our vision for the welfare state and on pensions in the private, public and state sectors. Copies have been brought down to the St Paul’s site I think, but we’re more than happy to give you more so you can distribute them.

OT: Are there any synergies between the occupy movement and modern trade unionism? What support are unions willing to give to occupy?

MS: Definitely. We both stand against oppression and corporate greed, we both stand against the political elites who try to mislead people into thinking our society’s problems are caused by the most vulnerable, rather than by the wealthiest and most powerful. I am personally very excited and inspired by what you’re doing, and I think you enjoy a huge amount of public support.

OT: What is your assessment of the Labour party’s stance on welfare and labor policy? If they cannot provide a satisfactory alternative, who can?

MS: If they can’t, we are and we will. I’m not a member of the Labour party and my union isn’t affiliated to it, but they’ve been a great disappointment to millions of people in this country. Many of the worst aspects of Tory welfare policy were started under Labour. Ed Miliband’s opposition to our strike in June was nothing short of a disgrace. There are signs they are moving more in our direction, but it’s very slow.