This week, the Occupied Times buys an international phonecard and rings Walter E. Williams, Professor of Economics at George Mason University, one of America’s most distinguished economists and a longtime champion of racial equality.
OCCUPIED TIMES: Professor, you can wave a magic wand – what economic changes do you make?
WALTER WILLIAMS: First thing, I’d stop the government bailing out businesses, stop the government bailing out banks. The big thorn in the side of free markets is the capacity for powerful people to use governments to rig the economic game in their favour.
OT: What are your thoughts on the Occupy Movement?
WW: Many of your objections are entirely legitimate. For example, crony capitalism and the bailouts. But I would argue that you’re in the wrong place – and you need focus. It’s important to remember: these private companies that are engaging in crony capitalism, getting special favours, they didn’t just ‘take’ the money – Congress and the White House gave it to them.
OT: If we’re in the wrong place, then where’s the right place?
WW: If you’re against crony capitalism, you should be outside the White House and the Houses of Parliament. Outside government. At no point are the protesters asking government to back off, they’re saying: “get more involved”. You want a piece of the political action? You want to be a part of it? Go where the action is.
OT: So you think it’s right that an effort to forge a ‘real democracy’ should be at the heart of the Occupy movement?
WW: My advice to you is focus on your bedrock concerns. And I honestly cannot identify a single issue you’re protesting about that doesn’t have its roots in government. Think of the bailouts, think of agricultural subsidies. In Europe, you’ve got poor people paying higher prices for food so that the farmers can be richer. I would end that.
OT: What do you see happening with the eurozone bailouts?
WW: The bailouts are going to fail. Greece has already in effect defaulted; I’m afraid it’s going to go down the tubes. And I feel sure they’re going to be followed by Portugal, Spain and Italy. It’s the end for Europe, or fast approaching the end.
OT: Isn’t the political will strong enough to keep it afloat?
WW: This is the tragedy of Europe: down through history, Europeans have been trying to kill each other, in the name of trying to unite Europe. Trying to unite people who don’t want to be united. The Germans don’t have great love for the French, the Greeks hate the Germans…
OT: What would you replace the eurozone with?
WW: There’s a very strong argument, I think, for a peaceful Free Trade zone across Europe. But at the end of the day, you want to be in charge of your own domestic policy, Brussels can’t do it for you, clearly.
OT: Looking back, do you see the Occupation movement as something new?
WW: I’ve lived through people marching against the Vietnam War, marching against Reagan’s idea to put missiles in Europe, and people protesting outside IMF and World Bank meetings. Really, I see it as a continuation of that.
OT: What kind of system do you favour?
WW: Look, you’re not going to find a perfect system until we get to heaven. Any economic system on earth is going to have its flaws. But let’s rank countries on whether they’re towards the communist/socialist end of the economic spectrum, or towards the capitalist and free market end, then rank countries according to per capita income, then go to Amnesty International, and rank countries according to human rights protections, you’ll find that capitalist countries that have the highest incomes and the greatest human rights protection.
OT: So you’re a libertarian capitalist?
WW: I’m a Thomas Jeffersonian liberal. If I was protesting, on my banner I’d have the words: ‘Get government out of our lives.’ In history, the very greatest human rights abuses have their root in government. On my other flag I’d have: ‘stop governments interfering with other nations’. For most of our history in America, we’ve minded our own business. We had huge oceans between us and anyone else. Which meant that we did not have to maintain huge standing armies to protect ourselves. Minding your own business is one of the means to higher wealth.
OT: If you’re against global interference, you’re presumably not a fan of the Robin Hood tax on financial transactions?
WW: I’m not a fan of it, no. As a matter of fact, I don’t think that we should insult the Robin Hood of legend with that name. They’ve got him upside down. Robin Hood used to rob the king’s despicable tax collectors that were ripping off the people. He robbed the tax collectors. Robin Hood – he’s my hero!